from General Secretary Bob Crow - TFL (RT/14/2)
Further to my circular dated 14th December (IR/608/11) I write to update branches on the TfL scheme to introduce Identifier tags from March 2012 for all Taxi driver members.
This would distinguish between those drivers licensed for hire in all of Metropolitan London (green badge) and those who were licensed for particular sectors outside the centre (yellow badge). Yellow badge drivers might be typically licensed for the London Boroughs of Redbridge, Greenwich, Merton, Harrow, Hillingdon and so on.
Following a meeting with our London Taxi Branch Representatives and Lead Officer, I have now written to TfL to demand that the introduction of identifier tags for London taxis be reconsidered. I am also in the process of seeking legal advice from our solicitors on the issues below as your Union firmly believes:-
That the implementation of this scheme has not been subject to meaningful consultation with all parties concerned (According to information obtained under Freedom of Information Act only 13 organisations have been consulted, which we believe is flawed. A clear indication that the process has been flawed is the fact that the first time the vast majority of the tens of thousands of London taxi drivers heard about the scheme was when they received a letter about it post-consultation. The exclusion of RMT, a bona-fide organisation which represents a substantial proportion of London taxi drivers, from the consultation process is another clear indication of the flawed process. The consultation also did not deal with the enforcement process or the rights and responsibilities of drivers.
According to documents submitted TfL plan to enforce this scheme using paragraph 28A of the London Cab Order 1934 (as amended by the new Cab order). However correspondence dated 21st October 2011 from TfL states they intend to use Metropolitan Public Carriage Act 1869 sections 6 and 8. We believe that TfL have not been consistent in this matter.
Access to drivers personal information would be easier obtained once the identifier tags are displayed, which we believe breach data protection act and puts our taxi members at risk.
I will of course update branches on any further developments.
CANNOT SEE WHAT THE PROBLEM IS...GREEN BADGE HOLDERS ALL HAVE WORKED INCREDIBLY HARD TO PASS THE KNOWLEDGE AND AS A RESULT SHOULD BE PROUD TO DISPLAY THAT FACT.IT APPEARS A MINORITY OF SUBURBAN DRIVERS HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS OVERDUE INITIATIVE...I WONDER WHY?????
ReplyDeleteGBH.
DeleteYou can not see a problem of displaying your badge number so prominently.
Let my fingers do the walking
Will it be a problem if I come round your house while your out working and smash the life out of anyone who opens the door.
#See a problem now.
Capital letters are very very rude young man.
DeleteMine are going in backwards assuming the back face is badge coloured aswell.
DeletePunters already inside the cab can already take the number from the yellow badge on my chest that I worked equally hard for (albeit for a shorter period of time) and am equally as proud of.
But the whole world of idiot drivers, motorcyclists, cyclists and pedestrians being invited to take pot-shots at us with the promise of their complaints being backed up by an authentic piece of identification without anymore contact than having driven past them on the wrong day is a breach of human rights surely.
One of my mates is slightly dyslexic and often rib him for getting letters or numbers in the wrong order, but in a their word against yours complaint and the burden of proof sits with you,the driver, how can you PROVE you were elsewhere when someone miswrites your badge number? Will TFL test their eyesight or medical records in the intrest of fairness, or will it actually be their word OVER ours.
I dont care who sees the colour of my badge, but I wont show my number to anyone outside my cab until TFL require cab numbers and/or reg numbers to prove the correct badge number has been taken, and the website allowing the public. access to my personal details is diabled PERMANENTLY.
I was thinking of joining the RMT but I will not now.Sadly the identifiers are necessary the majority of law abiding drivers have nothing to fear from the identifiers.Why people are so worked up about this one can only wonder? Shame other far more serious subjects attract so much apathy.
ReplyDeleteThank god your not joining, cause then you would be able to vote and I don't want anyone who can't see just how dangerous these badge number displays can be voting on other serious matters.
DeleteStick with the club mate. They are short sighted just like yourself. Your fit it well there.
Before all the ranting anti YB mob climb in on this, It AINT about letting people work out of sector.
ReplyDeleteIt's about the way LTPH reach decisons that affect the working driver on ANY issue and to challenge their biased and motivated actions.
Why should radio circuits and cab sellers get asked and not you who keeps everyone else including Johh Mason & co. in a very good living?
I was threatened last night by a minicab outfit ,If i had my id in they could have gone round my house and threatened my wife and family ,As it happened i didnt "and i wont ever" But needless to say a few hours later bricks where being thrown at taxis in Garrett lane sw18 by asian youths at where the minicab office is located im sure this has god something to do with them as they are a well know gangster outlet in the area "of course licenced by TFL".So im sure they WOULD have come round my house at some point, Helen Chapman and John mason are putting my family at risk now .
ReplyDeleteWill the RMT see this through or will it be just another thing that comes to nothing,Like getting us toilets.So far the RMT have been a disapointment,dont see this being any different.
ReplyDeleteWhat a large number of uninformed drivers don't understand is the driver web page is "under review" it is not removed!
ReplyDeleteand will probably be reinstated on the 1st of march when the amendment to the London cab order 1934, is signed of by Hendy.
The RMT are complaining that their members were not included in a public consultation, along with the vast majority of the trade. In fact there was never a public consultation, it was just a few invited groups.
You may think this is a great idea but just think again...
Why do you need your badge number on your front and rear screens?
Yellow or green identifying cards...no problem!
When the website goes back on line, as it will (PH drivers one is still up and running) with the aid of your full name, your address can be found on software such as 192.com.
How would you like to have a visit from the scabs at Fabrics or CXR 24 hour scab shop. Or worst another driver you cut up on Piccadilly.
How would your wife and kids like a visit while your out working.
Look how cheap these cards and wallets are
They were never designed to be permanent, they were designed to distract you while other issues slipped by unnoticed.
And so far...its well working!
I must say I agree that badge numbers shouldnt be necessary, but if you're incompetent enough to lose x amount of bills to re-emerge in east end boozers for sale to the highest bidder, then you could also lose identifiers to these criminals. At least numbeted ones will. identify the genuine drivers to the pco.
DeleteITS THE WEBSITE FOR THE PUBLIC THATS WRONG!, WRONG!, WRONG!!!
As long as names and badge numbers are only linked in official capacity and not in the public domain, I think that the id's might root out any hookey drivers and help raise public confidence.
It shouldnt have come to this, but since it has, lets just stop this public checker for our saftey, but embrace the badge number display for the publics safety.
I am so glad someone else has seen the dangers of displaying your badge combined with a website where full details can be accessed.
ReplyDeleteThis is an outrage to driver privacy and the security of myself and family.
Bravo the RMT for being intelligent enough to see this danger and for having the guts to take on Hendy and Mason.
Will be joining first thing on Monday.
Surely anyone with common sense can see the Identifiers are not a problem. They should have been introduced initially when we first had Yellow Badges, then we would not have experienced the hysteria that is now being shown by some YB's.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I am totally against the TfL site where badge numbers can be linked with the driver's name and vice versa.
Not at all Concerned.
How is a grieved nut case, coming round your house not a problem???
DeleteYou put your hatred of Ybs over tbe safety of your family.
A redesigned card without your badge number is surely better and you can't see that???
Sorry mate you should have your bill taken off you as your clearly the one with a problem!
I'm not an RMT member but I make them right on this.
ReplyDeleteWhy should we have those we don't elect speaking on our behalf?
Well Mason has done a fantastic job.
ReplyDeleteAs we speak planes to destroy the one tier service are being activated.
All drivers should be aware of the dangers of these badge number identifiers and the website
With peoples safety at risk surely there has to be a better way. Cards without badge number perhaps a barcode would be much better.
I would like to thank the RMT for being brave enough to bring about a legal challenge.
This will not be a popular move.
Just realised my mistake.
DeleteShould read
Plans to employ a one tier service and not what was posted in error. I give moderator my permission to change
Thank you
The point is we have a right to be fully involved in matters that affect us we have the right to voice our views.
ReplyDeleteI am a member of the RMT I do have a say and a vote and thats the whole point.
Your Badge Number on the Identifier makes no sense . I doubt if it will be used to find where you live . As your Number Plate tells people that . The DVLA sell that to people .
ReplyDeleteI think More and Better Surburban Ranks Are Needed . Hopefully something positive might happen .
The information sold by DVLA only gives owners address
DeleteNot drivers address and Phone number!
The thing about getting your address is nonsense . What is a person going to do with it . I agree the Badge number should not be their . A yellow or Green Sticker should be sufficient .
ReplyDeleteThe Stickers Are Not the Main Problem . Our Problem is Mini Cab Offices in Stations . Lack of Good Ranks . Radio Circuits that gave away work to Mini Cabs , and give left overs to Yellow Badges . The Sticker Will all blow over . Wait and See . I doubt if it will be changed at all . This situation should be used to gain rather than be negative What can Surburban Drivers Gain to Make Money . As this is all about MONEY
The thing about getting your address is not nonsense
DeleteTry it for yourself
Go to www.192.com and enter Robert Oddy and in the box that says area put Harrow. If you subscribe you get full address as well as phone number plus the other names of people living at the address.
It's not nonsense mate it's bloody dangerous
Rubbish !just download the opt out form from 192.com enter your details and send or fax back,within 10 days your details are not available calm down everybody this this yb's hysteria
Deleteso who is right here,harry or anon?if your details can be removed whats the problem?putting up a drivers details and address may be a legally watertight thing for them to do,putting your wives and childrens address isnt.ids must stay and the website must go.launching a legal bid against the ids is pointless.the vast majority of gbs want the stickers,the ybs dont,why only they know.we really have to put this to bed now and concentrate on the miniscabs that infest the streets night after night.clarity is needed here gentlemen,not constant bickering,misinformation and half truths.no one can question the rmts integrity on this,only their judgement.
DeleteIt is About People Working Out Of Their Sectors . Hence Stickers .
ReplyDeleteThe Side Arguments are being used to create confusion . If with a Yellow Sticker You earned More because your Area was increased . Would you say I want to earn less without a yellow sticker . Be proud to be a Surburban Driver . Its nothing to be ashamed of .
No it's not!
DeleteIt's about having you number emblazoned across your windscreen.
And the return of the driver details website.
Keep up mate and stop your paranoia over YBs. They are not the problem.
Coloured stickers are fine but not on this format they are unexceptable
To:
ReplyDeleteAnonymousJan 21, 2012 11:25 AM
I have a problem?
I think you have a problem because in your hysteria you have not read and understood what I have written.
And because you can't understand you want to take my bill away?
Glad you will never have the power to decide an issue, because if (you think) someone has a differing view to you, you want to take their bill away?
Long live democracy!
A friend of mine got threatened by a passenger with a knife.
ReplyDeleteThere are many unhinged people out there, why take a chance ?
Tfl have a duty of care as to the safety of both drivers and families... if they want there houses burgled or there wifes raped why not put there details on there for everyone to see.
A green badge
This article has Bob Crow's signature on it. Make NO mistake, when Bob Crow backs his members, he backs his members!
ReplyDeleteI have never considered myself as a Trades Unionist, and quite possibly have blindly overlooked the individual because of my own Political ignorance.
I have met Bob Crow; he is a real man, and judges not the individual. He offers his hand, support and the very best representation available. Believe me I know !
There are far too many in-activists interfering with progress; some of these sell themselves falsely to the activists in the trade to manipulate and to fulfill there own agenda.
Warnings about fifth columnists have been ignored and the sell-outs are de-commissioning their explosives, because they are smitten for the attention of a certain TfL employee ! Guess who ?
Guy's do I need to paint you a picture ?
warnings about a fifth columnist! that's rich Mark, speaking as one who while in the club!! contacted a Unite member, then when you couldn't get your way went to the UCG and then when they saw through you, went on to the RMT!!!
DeleteSo what's your game Mark who do you believe you are today?
The Spy who came in from the cold?
I shudder to think how some drivers must conduct themselves in order to provoke the threat of gangs of phv drivers looting their houses and assaulting their families.
ReplyDeleteI have worked all hours over the roughest areas in south london, and have found myself at odds with phv outfits, but NEVER have I conducted myself in a manner that would encourage such behaviour were the information available.
Perhaps drivers worried about these reprisals should take a close look at their own conduct before condemning phv drivers out of hand in hypothetical situations.
Try speaking to them as you would a family member if they had done something you strongly disapprove of, you might be somewhat surprised at the difference showing a little bit of respect can make in an altercation.
Having read some of these posts Im begining to think that identifiers might be a Good thing!!
Harry, one flaw in your master plan there old son. You need to know in which area he lives.
ReplyDeleteFar easier to just follow someone who has pissed you off rather than note down a badge number, be aware that the online checker exists then go home or park up and fire up the smartphone and do the check. All that to go around and rape you wife; molest your dog because you done a U turn and pissed off another driver.
I'm not keen on the names going public but this mass hysteria is really getting silly now.
It seems very obvious that one person is writing under many pseudo,s
ReplyDeleteespecially worrying comments,most of us can see this,it is not very seminiferous.
Yes, your are 100% right
DeleteA few drivers are sending many emails under pseudonyms
All support ID badges in any form, none question the safety aspect.
We sometimes check IP addresses when we suspect multiple comments from OBE or two sources.
Biggest culprit has come from LTDA system address 86.188.194.178
I think it's called political sprin or Black propaganda
cockney crackpots
ReplyDeleteTo. Confirm my post from yesterday .go to 192.com go to help click on remove my electrol roll details download form CO1 record correction form name post code signature send back job done! I done this over a year ago.also everybody neds to be ex-directory.
ReplyDeleteJust went to 192.com, done what you said, Bingo ,details off just like you said ,it took 2 minutes.
DeleteWell done.
your welcome.can i ask the mods of the board to prehaps start a new thread with the above details of how to get off this 192.com outfit so we can reach all drivers intrested in this.it will hopefully calm a few nerves.
DeleteWhat time you working to driver
ReplyDeleteBeen busy
Where do you live
You married mate
Questions asked by passengers every day.
what does seminiferous mean? can't see what these id's have to do with seeds!
ReplyDeleteI think what was meant by the post was that TfL are planting a seed that they can grow at a later date.
DeleteBoris has told Madon he can't pit website back up, but Boris could be gone in 100 days time!
Hi used 192.com , very easy / click help/click, electrol roll removal,click print, post code,name ,post sorted, thats blown 192.com out of the water! superb.
ReplyDeleteRight that's 192.com sorted.
DeleteThere are currently about a dozen of similar sites doing the same job, some quite expensive some free.
All you have to do now is find them and get your name removed
Good luck on that then.
Let us know how you get on.
it seem s that no one has mentioned that most suburban areas are over subscribed.the green badge drivers are refusing work everyday of the week.i live in b/green u cannot get a real taxi anytime of day or night why dont tfl or the pco allow a 2 mile inner zone from your yb areas on thur/fri/sat fom 10.00pmto 03.00am to help green badges keep what little work is left in black taxis .otherwise the next thing we have is minicab ranks all over london .not to mention addison lee.who are basically doing it already clean up the minicab trade first.i have no problem allowing ybs picking up what is refused by the all london drivers .
ReplyDeleteI am a YB the reason that that will never happen is GBs cant see past there noses I know of a couple of ranks in the east london area who are crying out for taxis but are never covered by GBs as they dont want them what gets me is they dont want us to have them then they wonder why the likes of addison lee are taking over
ReplyDelete