When the Mayor showed interest in setting an age limit on Taxis of 15 years from 2012 and 10 from 2015, instead of fighting the issue in court, the UTG decided to form a select group of interested parties (including manufacturers such as LTC and KPM) and made an offer of 15 years across the board, without consulting their membership.
(The Law is on our side and there has been case law against age limits as recent as 2010),
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| This is the group who signed away your right to plate a cab over 15 years old |
Left to Right Steve Mcnamara, LTDA, Ivan Kovler LMCPA, Rob Laidler LTI, Geoffrey Riesel RTL, Malcolm Paice Com Cab, Mike Hedges UNITE, Brian Rice DaC, Eddie Crossley LMCPA, Peter Da Costa KPM.
The LTDA who profess to speak for a third of the trade, Green/Yellow badged taxi drivers and inclusive of most Knowledge students, never held a democratic vote on this serious matter. Neither were the LCDC or Unite membership consulted on the issue.
"Was this blanket 15 year age limit offer accepted by the Mayor, as a trade-off by the UTG to bury the STaN agenda report?"
(STaN is report from 2002 that set up Satellite offices and will bring marshaled Private Hire ranks to the West End very shortly).
But the truth remains, our trade as a whole has not been fully consulted on this issue.
The Mayor consulted the residents on the Western Extension Zone (WEZ).
Every council tax payer in the West London area got to have a say. Why have we not been afforded a consultation on our most serious threat ever?
How has a select group, in fact a closed shop, who have not consulted with there subscription paying members, along with interested parties such as LMCPA Taxi Proprietors and manufacturers, been allowed to set this agenda for our trade?
Why should we be so bothered about the age limit being introduced in 2012.
Simply because, TPH, TfL and the UTG haven't thought this through properly.
Or have they?
By the end of 2012, 3,592 Taxis will have been removed from service. Are TfL and the Mayor expecting 3,592 drivers to suddenly come up with the money to purchase new vehicles?
LTC (LTI) and Mercedes will not be able to produce that many vehicles in one year anyway...
1783 of the cabs removed will belong to garages that hire out older Taxis to senior drivers who work a few days a week. This facility will disappear. The income from this will disappear and in this austere economy so will many of the smaller garages.
Taxis held as spare cabs for break downs and replacement overhaul vehicles will disappear.
Remember in September 2008, how hard it was to find spare cabs for drivers grounded over the engine fires, well treble that.
- 2013 another 1674 will be removed,
- 2014 will see 1724 come off and
- 2015another 1636.
We will be plunged back forty years to a situation where garages had the upper hand. Rents will rise dramatically, full flat cabs virtually impossible to rent and drivers could be forced to revert to working as doubled teams, on the clock where garages charged 60% of the takings. Is it any wonder that the manufacturers and the LMCPA were happy to see an age limit imposed.
Also coming up in 2013 is the introduction of 2 MOT's and 1 TPH compliant examination, no more yearly overhaul. Even less revenue for the garages, only the large ones will survive. The prices of servicing and running repairs will have to rise and drivers will be forced to meet these inflated costs.
When the Government bans affected our fishing fleets and abattoirs, they were paid huge sums to compensate for the lost of their businesses. Boris, the man who has spent 143 million pounds on bicycles, has offered the trade One Million Pounds in compensation for the loss to some drivers of their business (17861 vehicles will be affected).
Thats £56.00 (Less administration)per vehicle in compensation in some cases for the complete loss of a day to day business.
Driver shortfall...
There are currently only 2000 students on the knowledge, 1200 of which will not complete.
Boris is of the opinion that most of the older Taxis are driven by senior drivers in their late sixties and seventies. He is expecting a vast majority to retire (Again no research done). I thought the local councils and Police authorities were complaining, not enough drivers to handle the work at week ends.
Is the Mayor going to fill this short come with private hire marshaled ranks as in the original STaN report from 2007?
TIME IS NOW RUNNING OUT
There is just 3 months to legally lodge an objection to this undemocratic ban of Taxis over 15 years old, and 1 month has already ticked by.
There is only one representative body that vigorously opposed the introduction of an age limit.
There is only one representative body that is actively seeking legal advice on behalf of the drivers to take TfL and TPH to court over this issue and that is the RMT.
The others have sold the trade out.
Boris remember these
Well how about we use these, this time round
We have been informed that buses (Some fifty years old) will be allowed to be retro fitted (with new engine emission kits) but this will not be an option for the cab trade. Even Taxis that have been converted to LPG (zero emissions) at the drivers own expense will be taken off the road on their fifteenth birthday.
Although it will never be admitted in public it is blatantly obvious that the long term policy is the dismantling of the London cab trade in its present form.
ReplyDeleteWe will eventually end up like the old Routemaster red bus and be confined to plying for hire on the London tourist trail i.e. we will be part of the tourist "must be seen" attractions along with Buckingham Palace, Big Ben etc.
At this eleventh hour there is only one saving grace on the horizon and that is the RMT.
If that organisation does decide to challenge through the Courts then it is an obligation on every cab driver to support and put their hand in their pocket and subscribe no matter what other organisation he/she may or may not be affiliated to.
Also, regretably the vast majority of the people in the photograph says it all but of course none of them will admit to having a vested interest in the Mayor's dcision.
In conclusion, was the cab trade consulted prior to the STaN report?
If so - who?
If not - why not?
I do believe the original STaN report was launched in October 2002 by mayor Ken Livingston, it has Ed Thompson name on it.
ReplyDeleteThe power point presentation STaN report by TFL won the Herman Goldstein Award for Excellence in 2006.
And on page 39 it states when STaN was launched.
Then a man called Peter Hulme Cross came on the scene with another report regarding STaN.
Then on the 15th October 2009 J.Mason sent out his first message to the London cab trade, about improving the direct level of communication and offering guidance and advice that we might find helpful and useful whilst working as a Taxi driver?
Well, in his direct communication he never told us about TFL setting up mini cab satellite offices right under our noses with no consultation whatsoever?
Why did he keep so quiet? Direct communication what a joke. He must have known that this kind of support and expansion plans for the minicabs would be extremely provocative to the licensed Taxi trade.
Did the Director of Taxis and Private Hire let anyone know at the UTG that TFL had been awarded the Herman Goldstein Award for Excellence in Problem Oriented Policing 2006?
We were kept in the dark, in spite of his pledge of direct communication.
And what do the UTG do..... Just take your money and keep STHUM.
Thank you STaN Gate
ReplyDeleteYour observation has been noted and the article has been updated.
And lets not forget editor, the other items that this motley crew (includng the 'off stage' Grant Davis) agreed to:
ReplyDelete1. Two MOT's locally (no details yet of charges etc.)
2. In addition a Taxi Item compliance check (once again no details of fees, retest arrangements etc.) No doubt accompanied by a 'stop note' road block outside the doors of the testing centre.
SO THAT'S THREE INSPECTIONS A YEAR FOR ALL CABS.
3. An Eco driving test fror new drivers (and no doubt for those caught with the pedal down in town)again d no details of costs, retests etc.
This time the so called trade representatives (who by not consulting their members have represented no one!)have excelled themselves in probably the worse example of negotiation since Neville Chamberlain and 'Peace in our time'.
What did the trade get in return for giving up our well established condition based system:
1. 20 Minutes free parking on all meters and bays to spend a penny? NO.
2. Licence fees reduced/frozen for 5 years? NO.
3. Subsidy for upgrading? Maybe!!
A paltry £1 million So thats less an admin cost of 20% leaves £800K to go around 20,000 cabs. A GRAND SUM OF £40.00 yes. readers Forty Pounds per cab, that about a days diesel!!!!!
4. A commitment from TfL for never letting PHV's in bus lanes? NO.
We have to comply with Euro 5 by 2012 but PHV Euro 4 and Buses Euro 3. Thats a grand strategy to clean the air.
The old cabs won't disappear but can still run around as private cars!
The Road Tax on a Fairway is still half the TX4's so the Government sure isn't following whatever logic Hendy, Mason, Boris and Ranger are using.
The RMT we know will get the legal eagles on the case, but the issue is nmore than just points scoring.
We are ALL licensees (in a trade org. or not)and we ALL should have been consulted (e mail, meetings etc. etc.).
TfL met the 'poodles' and they sold us out.
TfL do not seem to be able to publish any minutes of this act of treachery and the guilty parties sure ain't unless the memberships make them.
Anyway back to Neville Chamberlain and to quote from what one MP said in the House of Commons to him 'You have sat there too long to do any of us any good, in the name of god, go and go now!'
So there we have the exact words every self respecting cab driver who is a member of a UTG organistaion (LTDA/LCDC/UNITE) needs to be a saying to these people.
Time for change, no more retreats!
Your Family is relying on it!!!!
The points raised in other comments here are very valid. It really does emphasise the utter incompetence of the UTG and their dire lack of vision.
ReplyDeleteThe Mayors cleaner air strategy was very poorly negotiated by all concerned and the contract was left laying on the table without the i's dotted and the t's crossed. TfL must be laughing their bollox off at the sheer incompetence of those who purport to represent the cab trade !
Once again the Trade has been sold down the river by people with vested intrests in the 15 year rule,
ReplyDeleteQuite who gave Mc Namara,or Paice,The right to speak on the Trades behalf astounds me,Paice is a nobody,who was recently called up the PCO,for allocating YBs on COM CAB work within the GBs zone,And Mc Namara,only last year when he was driving a Fairway was dead set against this rule,[dont know what he drives at the moment only ever see him talking at Paddington]Lailer and Da Costa,well its obvious thier intrest,Mind if the rumours are right and Mercedes are going to sell direct,Da Costa knows KPM would be the last place drivers will go.so he needs this in asap,Riesel and Rice,are probaly the 2 who first sold out to the minicabs,by Giving the cream radio work to the scabs,and the shit to Taxis via thier Radio circuits.And the drivers on the cicuits allowed this to happen,So.
Then theres Kovler and Crossley thier intrests are pure Greed,as they are in a win win situation,As soon as the old cabs come off the road cabs will be scarce,so rents will go up.
We really are in last chance saloon.
So lets fight back whilst we still can.
Only use KPM or LTI for work that will cost them,All other work go elsewhere.
As for RIESEL and RICE,If your on thier circuits Pick a night and all turn your radios off for that night,Do it one night every week so they cant cover the work.
As for Kovler and Crossley,if you rent from them hand your cabs back,Rent elsewhere whilst you still can,
Mc NAMARA and PAICE,well sorry chaps you just have to accept them as women accept Thrush,Right irratating little c***s.
do we really want to see 20 year old cabs driving around?
ReplyDeleteA business man going to a meeting would much rather travel in a clean, air conditioned new vehicle like AL use than in a 22 year old cart!
Sadly our trade leaders have the negotiating prowess of a gnat so as usual we as a trade get very little in return but i do think that an age limit is required.
Do I want to see 20 year old Cabs?
ReplyDeleteOf course not
In the as much as I don't want to see 50 year old tube trains or 30 year old buses.
You talk of business men not wanting to travel in fairways but they don't mind flying in 30 year old planes.
Addison Lee drivers have their vehicles bought for them by an owner who pays them peanuts. If they had to buy their own cars it would be a much older fleet.
Perhaps if the mayor paid compensation by way of a scrapage scheme as the government have done with old cars, it may help to get older cabs off the road, but £56 compensation is an insult
£134m spent on bicycles
ReplyDelete£1m compensation for 3590 cab drivers for the loss of their business.
Buses companies are paid £2500 subsidy for every bus, annually to help with running costs and we still see 30 year old vehicles
Had boris used that money to upgrade taxi engines we would all be driving around with hybrid Toyota engines with change from the £5500 each.
Or £2500 annual subsidy would help drivers upgrade, say every three years!
Jason
I agree we should all desire shiny new aircon, abs, hybrid clean cabs BUT we dont get any fuel subsidy, VAT concession or anything despite the Mayor saying 'Taxis are a vital link in an integrated transport system'.
ReplyDeleteRemember Addison Lee etc. gets a huge discount ansd sell on three years later at much the same price they paid for the vehicle and that some desperate muppet has given them 30K Plus in rental!
For sure Boris's forty odd quid a cab ain't going to help!
It's more than derisory, it just shows the contempt we are held in and that the UTG will agree to anything rather than let someone with real balls negotiate!
Lets not forget the three inspections/MOT's a year thrown in.
As ever the drivers pay, everyone else laughs at us!
Thanks UTG.
that's the point. Once again our trade representatives have let us down. We could of conceded to an age limit but on the grounds that we got decent subsidy or more choice of vehicle by removing the antiquated turning circle requirement. Also there should have been the insistence that the age limit would be reviewed every 5 years to keep up with technological advancements.
ReplyDeleteAnnon number 5
ReplyDeleteYou make some good points. But you have to keep in mind who Mason and TfL are dealing with and remember they ain't that bright !
I once asked Grant Davis. If I offered you £5 now, or £500 in a years time, what would you say ? He replied " Do you think I'm f#@kin stupid, gimmee the fiver now!"
And that's as much thought he has given to this policy.
Be lucky.
I am obviously missing something here, by the time the age limit thing starts in 2012 (and most drivers with half decent older cabs will plate them in Nov/Dec 2011) it will be the back end of 2012 before cabs start going. By then at least 1000 of the cabs shown will have rotted away anyway.
ReplyDeleteLTI and Mercedes/KPM sigbed up for a 15 year age limit, surely its in their interests to have the 10 years the Mayor wanted? Surely the same must go for the radio circuits?
The propreitors (who run 80% of the old sh*t carts) could not have wanted any age limit at all along with the UTG.
To get everyone to sign up for one deal must have taken a lot of persuading, who did that?
To get Brian Rice and Grant Davis to sign the same agreement, ditto who did that?
Two MOTs at your local MOT centre £38 at my local centre must be a result for everyone.
No wonder most LOndoners see us as whingers, the comments on here highlight it, this age limit is not good news but it could have been a lot worse, stop whinging get over it!
Yes mate you have missed the point, completely.
ReplyDeleteWhy would it matter what date they come off in 2012, they will come off.
Following the fiasco with the cabs taken off early over the emissions issue, its a dot on the cards that owners will not be able to do that this time round (no matter what Mr McN says).
Following on in the next 3 years another 5,000 vehicles will go.
The larger Proprietors will be rubbing their hands as Cab rents will rise dramatically as demand out strips supply. Only doubled teams will be able to afford the new rents.
Banks will invest in new cabs for Garages which now will so a great return.
Only the smaller fleets will be hit badly and will probably disappear.
Grant Davis did refuse to go to the meeting to sign, and it was signed on his behalf by another committee member, as he didn't have the bottle to face Mr Rice.
Two MOT's at a local garage, both followed by a trip to SGS (subject to a fee not issued yet) to be checked as they don't trust local garages testers.
Plus a £300 compliance Test. Thats now 3 trips possibly 6 if the cab fails (don't forget £50 re test fees).
Most Londoners do not see us as whingers, they see us as essential, iconic, safe transport that could be reduced to a tourist attraction over one mans craving for an OBE.
30 pieces of silver has been promised and the trade HAS been sold down the river by interested parties.
The long term effect of this policy will devastate the cab trade. The piss poor standard of negotiating will leave the trade between a rock and a hard place. It does appear that the door has been left wide open for TfL to move the goal posts, time and time again to suit their own cause.
ReplyDeleteYou don’t need a Chrystal ball to see that we will be shafted by the LTPH inspection. After all, MOT inspections are regulated by the DOT. So why do we need a third more official inspection on top of the two?
If TfL consider that MOT testing station standards are not high enough and a third more rigorous inspection is required; surely this contradicts the need for MOT inspections in the first place.
This is what happens when you let loose people with degrees in underwater basket weaving in control of infrastructure that they have no relevant experience in. I am well informed that John Mason has no more than a hand full of O levels. Captain of industry he is not and never will be !!
Maybe this whole fiasco was dreamt up by one of John Thomas's script writer friends from Dad's Army ? Over to you John; no, on second thoughts, PLEASE DON'T !
I care not how many O levels Mr Mason has got, its the crippling stupidity of our own trade 'negotiators' that appals me.
ReplyDeletefor Mr Anon:
Who says 'get over it', what if TfL produce 'data' that shows emissions are not reducing quick enough then the age limit will shift and YET AGAIN no one will ask YOU.
What about the 'zero emissions zone ' talked about, I bet today Addison Lee are looking at electric cars to service it.
OHV'sonly have to reach Euro 4, Buses Euro 3 but us (the mugs) Euro 5!!!!!
No one, yet no one can explain how a 15 year old cab is dirtier than a 14 year 364 day old cab in 2012, there was no 'engine change' 15 years ago from LTI was there.
It's another political gesture just like the retro fit of emissions and wheelchair converstions, receipt printers etc. with no evidence to show it makes any REAL DIFFERENCE to air quality.
As for MOT's and the Tfl 'Taxi Check', we all know what the 'level playing field' of SGS testing turned into and this affects ALL cab drivers, not just the older cabs.
If they wanted clean air, they should have said to LTI & MB. 'you have two years to have a hybrid or electric cab ready at an accesible price or we open up the CoF' also TfL will petition government to get a tax concession for us to change.
But NO, let's kick the drivers instead (and offer £50 a cab to help!!!)!
Who appointed Eddies Crossley, Ivan Kohler, Brian Rice etc. to decide on YOUR livelihoood?
Get real.
I drive an s Reg tx1 it has only done 130k a lot less than many tx4s it is immaculate many passes thinking its 2 years old. It is also reliable efficient a lot better than the new cabs that catch fire have rad, brake, gearbox and spins shells when revived hard ( I know this as a friend is a lti mechanic ). And even better than the van that makes us look like miniscabs has 8k out of warranty rear wheel steering probs. As well as uneconomical electric window props great if u never want to own a cab or if u wish to work from a garage. So please don't call my cab shit without looking at it.
ReplyDeleteThe reason why I have to get rid of it emmitions? Climate? Well I could convert to Lpg euro 5 ..I would not have a global footprint on my taxi ie China to coventry. Coventry to london. I would also not have the emmitions of disposing of my vehicle.
Conclusion
Nothing about emmitions or the vehicle. I have conducted a survey and passes don't care weather the cab is new or old just that it is clean and safe. Some fact prefer fairways to tx4 or mercs as they have character. It is just about making money for the people concerned and aiding a hidden agenda.
Think about it
Pco disbanded
Merc introduced
Scab ranks
Pedicabs still on our streets
M4 bus lane disbanded
Cab ranks suspended so scabs can work
Now 2 mots and pco inspection ????
Age limit ???? Why arent the price of cabs 8k cheaper ??? Why is there not an environmentally friendly cab to purchase for drivers that is 15 year future proof ??
Latters
I see Brian Rice was one of the group who signed up to 15 years. This is the man who didn’t even want to own and run an old cab. He got a rule change on DaC that said board members did not have to own a cab on OWNER DRIVERS RADIO TAXI SERVICE
ReplyDeleteIf You Read The Minutes of meetings ...Brian Rice Clearly stated that a 15 year rule was needed without question....
ReplyDeleteThe reason why our trade is slipping away from us is because drivers (Sadly) expect others to do their complaining for them, But things will change when we get pushed to far...and its close!!...& take a good look at the people in the above photograph and remember... who elected them to represent you? Join a union who will stand 100% behind you... there are far to many drivers in this 15 year rule boat to allow it to simply float away... it WILL sink..dont forget that!
ReplyDelete